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The Running Tide #7 railroads
is up on my public skydrive
What do railroads have to do with TOL? Series 1 N7 is "Passage to
Pernambuco", where James implausibly distracted a crew of 1000 railroad
workers to dig wild grape vines in return for a shipload of salt. TRT
was produced independently of TOL but there was some attempt to match
them, so TRT #6 steam was added to S1N6 "Salvage", in which Albert
used his steam pinnace to prevent Callon from salvaging Charlotte
Rhodes. Was that also where Albert corresponded with John Ericson, a
real steam engineer mentioned in TRT #6? TRT #5 crimping was added to
S1N5 "Catch As Can" when Baines was crimped. Anne learned to navigate in
S1N2 "Plain Sailing".On 5/17/2013 5:11 PM, R wrote:> I give up.
>
> I've been building, rigging, restoring and sailing traditional
> vessels for over 35 years but I can see that being the font on all
> matters nautical for this group is important to you so I will leave it
> to you to answer any technical questions in future, okay?I appreciate answers from you both. To make the rough calculation
(interesting to me) that 1 degree of rudder is effective I needed R's
description of his experience PLUS the typical wheel/rudder data Dino
provided, that I asked for. I think questioners benefit when a BBS has
answers from multiple sources of varying authority as long as they can
correct each other without getting as frustrated as R.In my experience (except for my first message) this BBS is very quick at
distribution, I send a message and see it come from the group in
seconds. I appreciate the prompt responses I got from R & Dino. If they
aren't getting such quick reception of each other's messages that can
lead to crossed emails and corrections and contradictions which are NOT
very dangerous. If I get misinformed I'll be happy to see the correction.Or, I'll learn how names of things have evolved. The 19th century terms
are what I need most to understand TOL. R said "Reefing square sails
died out long before James' day! " and described what is done to stow a
rectangular sail. James & Baines call for reefing multiple times, I
wonder if that's a script anachronism, or they're doing something more
temporary than stowing.> By the way, have you worked out why there are usually three cutouts for
> the boom?Nope. My first idea was that if the ship is still underway, and you want
to stow that boom even temporarily, then if there's still wind it will
be easier to stow in the leeward cutout. But I'm not convinced that's
really easier. When Dino said the gaff goes in a second cutout I
believed that. When R pointed out the gaff is too short, he's obviously
right.I do claim credit for inventing the balanced rudder while I was trying
to guess how long the Sea Cloud's rudder is, and thinking about how a
rudder should be pivoted. I can see how the bit of rudder in front of
the pivot would reduce the strength the helmsman has to apply, so it
makes sense it would reduce his feel for the force between water & hull
as a function of ship's course.> Like so many land expressions that came from the sea, 'To pour oil on to
> troubled waters'. Oil slowly seeping out of a canvas bag towed behind a
> ship would create a slick which would flatten the breaking crest of a
> wave, messy business though!Is this a superstition? I think they were not hove to, so they would
stay ahead of the slick. Seems like it would only help a ship following
closely behind. Also I would think it would take a thick layer to
flatten crests at sea, many barrels of oil. How much oil would the 1880s
Soren Larsen carry? Can waves from behind overtake the ship? I would
expect even a thin layer of oil would calm the smallest turbulence in
the waves. But the larger mass movement which could be felt when an
ocean wave reached the ship, that would not be noticeably reduced by
several slowly seeping bags yards away. Am I wrong? I'm guessing.I think it is not necessary to apologize to someone you are correcting,
they probably appreciate it. Apologizing implies that you must be
hurting them when you correct them because they are more interested in
pride than truth. Dino plainly isn't hurt. I think R is too easily
frustrated by seeing errors. Errors are normal in BBS environments and
not a problem if they're corrected. I understand errors from others add
to the writing load R has to do to maintain the high standards of
accuracy we expect from TOL.Lee
The Running Tide #6 steamis up on my public skydrive
On 5/15/2013 5:09 AM, R wrote:> A fine ship Cap'n, a fine ship and what an adventure!
Not that it was intended to be a sailing ship, but I should have
remembered wind blowing the raft backwards because
our superstructure was so tall. Sometimes we had to row for hours to get
around a bend in the river.> "Huh!" Doesn't translate very well with regards two rudders! I'm
> guessing it means you haven't seen a yacht with two? Or was that a huh
> of agreement or approval?Surprise that I hadn't figured that out before. I think I've seen yachts
like that but I passed it off as redundancy and hadn't thought about why
the rudders weren't parallel. Now that you & Dino mention it it is
obvious that rudders & sails work best when they're vertical, so I
understand why there are two rudders at different angles.> crew to push/haul the mizzen boom to one side and the main to the other,
> ie 'goose winged' and with a downstream zephyr slipped the mooring. SheSomewhere in TOL the square sails are set on 3 masts but fore & mizzen
are angled parallel to each other, and main is rotated 90 degrees. I
think that was during an attempt to stop the ship? I guess wind was from
the side.On 5/14/2013 9:16 AM, R wrote:> A good captain would be trusted to the hilt and is a god-like figure
I know that grave responsibility, as Master under God, from my summer
after high school as captain of an unpowered trip 400 miles down the
Alabama River. That's me standing beside the blond who is christening
the homemade raft –
http://sdrv.ms/12cgzcR> "That is astounding, precision engineering that allows such a huge mass
> to be kept centered in an unstable equilibrium with such a small force."
>
>
> Yes, it does seem so on the surface but most wheels have some sort of
> gearing to reduce the load on your arms,It isn't the reduction in force that is so rare, it's the analog
precision — where you could keep Sea Cloud's sails full with a helm
adjustment as small as 1 spoke, which would be about 1 degree of rudder
in Dino's example. And I bet the length of the rudder is < 2% of the
316' length of the ship. That is Formula 1 precision on a much larger
scale. Such a tiny adjustment of such a small piece would be lost in the
slop of a machine that is not so well-tuned.> This is why many ultra modern racing yachts have two rudders and helms,
> each rudder splayed outwards so when heeled one rudder is nearer to
> vertical than the other.Huh!
> the vessel will probably just keep swinging up into the wind which is a
> good thing, a kind of safety measure and helps you steer or if you fall
> overboard as a solo sailor the yacht will stop.I didn't know that either.
(re "in irons")
> underway again, basically go astern or backwards to reverse out of the
> predicament.I never knew a sailing ship could go backward! I guess it's a small
movement, mainly rotating in place.Thanks for all the answers!
On 5/14/2013 1:52 AM, LambuLambu@aol.com wrote:> Wow! Loads more
questions. I'll tackle a few so the burden doesn't fall> all on R. (I'll snip some bits below and leave the bits I'll try to answer.)
Thanks for the explanations & photos! I can see how that double screw
works. And now I remember seeing a turks head knot on a wheel spoke, I
hadn't thought about it marking rudder position.On 5/12/2013 9:54 AM, R wrote:> Gosh, you want a whole treatise on the subject of naval architecture eh?
Thanks for all the info! I understand how specific questions would be a
lot easier, what you've provided is useful.> Everything to do with the design of a vessel is a compromise and each
> part has a direct effect on the rest, it's far too complicated a subject
> to cover in one short email, prismatic coefficients, lateral plain
> centres, the curve of areas when drawn giving an indication of weather
> or lee helm at the drawing board stage but that in turn being as a
> direct correlation to the centre of effort of combined or reefed sails,
> I can hear you snoring already! It would be much more simple for me to
> answer one direct question at a time.No snoring, but I understand this is a very complicated problem, trying
to go X direction when the wind is blowing Y direction. and sails are
angled Z, rudder W, keel V, submerged hull shape U.> Pre Harrison Longitude was guessed, it was common practise from the days
> of Columbus to sail South to a known Latitude, 'Sail South until the
> butter melts then head West',this is hilarious, where would we be if pre-Harrison sailors didn't
trust captains with vague heuristics> wind I felt a pull at the wheel, weather helm it's known as, ie the
> vessel wants to round up into the wind and you need to apply pressure on
> the wheel to stop her and all it took to hold her on course was one or
> at the most two spokes from midships,That is astounding, precision engineering that allows such a huge mass
to be kept centered in an unstable equilibrium with such a small force.I don't see any marker on the wheel that would let you know that the
rudder is directly in line with the keel. Is there one, how do you know
how many spokes you are from midships? I see 8 spokes on Soren Larsen
wheel. How many 360 degree turns of the wheel would move the rudder from
full left to full right? What angle to keel is full left? If you let go
of the wheel. will the rudder line up with the keel?> as the further a vessel heels the slower she will be and more
> difficult she is to handle.Because of the different shape of the hull cross section below water
when boat is heeling? I see that a symmetrical cross section (no
heeling) would be most sensitive to rudder direction. A horizontal deck
might happen only with sailing down wind, what deck angles from
horizontal are common?> rest of us were in our bunks. During his watch the wind slowly increased
> in strength and due to his inexperience he let the ship
> heel more and more until she was taking water over the rail,What angle from horizontal does the deck have to be to take water over
the rail?> the motion
> threw the very experienced Dutch skipper out of his bunk! He came on
> deck to find the owner with a huge grin saying "Man look at the old girl
> go!!". I can't repeat what the skipper said in reply……. !Let's make this deck more horizontal please before we sink
> 'stacking' on Sea Cloud, each yard being held in it's position by a
> Brace from each end. This means that the smallest sail, the one at the
> very top of the mast, will have it's windward edge closer to the
> direction from where the wind is coming than the one below and the one
> below that and so on, soThe bit about stacking the sails in a spiral makes sense, and I hadn't
noticed it. So, the wind changes direction, the helmsman notices the
highest sail luffing.> preferably by regularly keeping a weather eye on the
> 'Luff' of that small sail and be able to take action by 'Putting the
> Helm Down'that is, adjusting the angle of the rudder so that the keel comes closer
to the direction of the wind (closer to sailing directly downwind) and
the highest small sail is filled again> Holy stoning with a block of soft sandstone the size of a large bible,
> hence the name,see, I learned something, I figured it was pumice & holy because pumice
floats
Cleaning a dirty deck improves traction, OK. Why isn't a heeling clean
wet deck so slippery that you can't run on it?What is going on when I hear:
"I don't want her in irons"
"prepare to come about"
Leonora almost gets walloped with a swinging boom — altho I guess that
happened when a rope was loose (S3N1), that boom should have been tied
to leewardLee
On 5/11/2013 4:34 AM, R wrote:> If you really want me to I shall watch them all again and take notes?
Really? I guess I'm the only one here who connects TRT with TOL so I
understand if detail about TRT is off topic. On the other hand, your
personal participation in TOL is an ON topic flag I bet. I guess I
won't impose as much as asking you to make that effort, but really, I
would appreciate seeing your notes on TRT! I'm interested in how
sails/wind/rudder/freeboard/mast location interact, and if I got the
wrong idea from TRT (or even TOL) I'd like to know better. This is a
great opportunity to get education from experts without having to search
for it!It takes longer to upload these TRT episodes than I expected, I have 3
more ready but no schedule to get to the neighbor's uplink. #9 is
audible but video is so shaky I may try to extract it again. Every pass
of an old VHS cassette over the VCR heads threatens to clog the heads,
so I can't guarantee getting #10-15. When I add anything to the
collection (#1-5 so far) at
http://sdrv.ms/12cgzcR
I'll announce it here.> I did say 'implied' discovering Longitude, some mention of Harrison
> whould have removed that implication.I agree. Probably US-centrism was the reason for mentioning Sumner
instead. The TRT claim that prior to Sumner longitude was measured by
"time zone difference" sounds stupid, there were no time "zones" at sea,
right? Knowing the time in Greenwich when the local time is measureable
by solar noon or some other celestial orientation is vital. Harrison
discovered the mechanical technique that made clocks accurate enough to
measure longitude by precise time difference.> Masefield's long trick is a reference to steering (with the helm!).
> Contrary to common belief steering is often more disliked than any other
> duty onboard primarily because it can be incredibly boring,
> alone, constantly watching a compass or physically exhausting fighting a
> kicking wheel and the hour 'trick' one does at the wheel can feel an
> eternity, woebetide any man late to take his turn at the wheel
> especially on a cold wet night!That is a surprise, I thought it would be easy duty. It's not clear to
me how helmsman or officer decides what he can do with the wheel is not
adequate and sails or course must be adjusted.What is the purpose of holystoning the deck? Is holystone pumice? Seems
like wet polishing would eliminate splinters for barefoot sailors, but
also eliminate all traction when wet ?!Thanks for the corrections.On 5/10/2013 2:04 PM, R wrote:
> I didn't keep notes when watching but off the top of my head, describing
> fore and aft rigged boats with only one mast as sloops but showing a
> picture of a cutter.So, I guess the single fore and aft mast is too far astern in the first
picture TRT calls a "sloop"; the second picture called a sloop actually
is one?> Implying an American discovered how to calculate Longitude, John
> Harrison would have something to say on that one!TRT didn't say American Thomas Sumner discovered how to calculate
longitude, that was already being calculated with clocks & tables. TRT
didn't mention Harrison who invented (1759) a clock accurate enough. TRT
said Sumner discovered (1837) how to calculate longitude with the same
(?!) observation as using the sextant to measure latitude. I'm guessing
he still needed Harrison's clock, just not such complicated tables.> There were many more small errors which sadly could misinform someone
> with little to no knowledge of the subject and eventually run the risk
> of being distorted into fact if left unchecked,I encourage nit picking, I've always assumed OL is historically
precise*! I imagine TRT was created earlier, independently, but due to
my formative experiences seeing them together, I want TRT accurate too.
(*I think Garibaldi's route to Italy was a little different.)> Take one term we all should know by now as it's in common parlace the
> world over, the relatively recent one of 'Helming'. I cringe every timeI think TRT did not say that? OED does have a listing for "helm" as a
verb, usages from 1603-1890.> do we all know what he meant with 'when the long trick is over'?
Huh! I thought I knew, but I was thinking Masefield wrote "trek" until
you pointed it out, TRT does say "trick".> If anyone really wanted to nit-pick, I mean REALLY split hairs, in the
> days of sail all vessels were known by their rigs so the term 'Ship'
> would only be used to describe a vessel with square sails on all masts
> therefore a Brig, Barque, Cutter, Schooner etc etc would never be
> referred to as ships because they weren't ship rigged.I'm the one who made up the title "sails & ships", I guess "sails &
vessels" or "rigging" would be better. I think TRT was pretty careful
about not calling a schooner etc a "ship". But a brig has square sails
on all (2) masts, right? Sometimes TRT & dictionaries imply a "ship"
has 3 or more masts.James S1N1 09:06 referring to the schooner Charlotte Rhodes: "Old Josh
Webster's ship…"> I'll shut up now!
Please pipe up again when you see more errors!
Lee
Running Tide was produced in New Orleans. Some of the later titles are
more obviously US-based, like the "women" episode is largely about
female steamboat captains on the Mississippi. I guess it was only
broadcast in the US, PBS needed to fill up the hour when they broadcast
series 1 & 2 of OL. Years later when Arts & Entertainment cable showed
series 5+ they inserted commercial breaks so they didn't need filler.What's inaccurate?
And what's that cover they remove to look at the compass? I'm guessing
there's an oil lamp and lens in there so the helmsman can see the
bearing at night?Lee
On 5/10/2013 12:07 PM, R wrote:
> Judging by the inaccuracies, bias and different cultural/technical
> terminology I'd hazzard a guess only in the USA?
>
> Richard.
>
> — On Fri, 10/5/13, Chris J Brady <chrisjbrady@yahoo.com
> <mailto:chrisjbrady%40yahoo.com>> wrote:
>
> From: Chris J Brady <chrisjbrady@yahoo.com <mailto:chrisjbrady%40yahoo.com>>
> Subject: Re: [shiponedingroup] Re: The Running Tide 10 minute filler
> after 1977 PBS broadcast of OL
> To: shiponedingroup@yahoogroups.com
> <mailto:shiponedingroup%40yahoogroups.com>
> Date: Friday, 10 May, 2013, 16:39
>
>
>
> Brilliant. Thank you. Were these broadcast in the UK or only in the US
> or maybe Australia? Chris B.
>
> — On Fri, 10/5/13, Lee Bonnifield <lee78@localnet.com
> <mailto:lee78%40localnet.com>> wrote:
>
>> From: Lee Bonnifield <lee78@localnet.com <mailto:lee78%40localnet.com>>
>> Subject: Re: [shiponedingroup] Re: The Running Tide 10 minute filler after 1977 PBS broadcast of OL
>> To:shiponedingroup@yahoogroups.com <mailto:shiponedingroup%40yahoogroups.com>
>> Date: Friday, 10 May, 2013, 0:05
>> whoops I meant #5 crimping
>> On 5/9/2013 7:04 PM, Lee Bonnifield wrote:
>> > Thanks Elaine! There are 2 more up now, #3 superstition
>> & #4 crimping.
>> >
>> > I've put 5 of The Running Tides up on my public
>> skydrive, more to follow.
>> >
>> >http://sdrv.ms/12cgzcR
>> >
>> > These are about 10 minutes each, 640×480 .wmv files
>> 40-55 megabytes
>> >
>> > Lee
>> >
>> > On 5/8/2013 8:15 AM, Elaine de Saxe wrote:
>> >> On Wed, 08 May 2013 04:17:20 -0000, leebonnifield
>> wrote:
>> >>
>> >>> I've put 3 of The Running Tides up on my public
>> skydrive, more to follow.
>> >> Seriously excellent! The sound is quite clear and
>> it's the commentary
>> >> which has the information.
>> >>
>> >> Thank you for what you have done so far. I'm keen
>> to see the rest of
>> >> them when you are able to get them up, Lee.
>> >>
>> >> Cheers
>> >>
>> >> Elaine in Brisbane, Australiawhoops I meant #5 crimpingOn 5/9/2013 7:04 PM, Lee Bonnifield wrote:
> Thanks Elaine! There are 2 more up now, #3 superstition & #4 crimping.
>
> I've put 5 of The Running Tides up on my public skydrive, more to follow.
>
> http://sdrv.ms/12cgzcR
>
> These are about 10 minutes each, 640×480 .wmv files 40-55 megabytes
>
> Lee
>
> On 5/8/2013 8:15 AM, Elaine de Saxe wrote:
>> On Wed, 08 May 2013 04:17:20 -0000, leebonnifield wrote:
>>
>>> I've put 3 of The Running Tides up on my public skydrive, more to follow.
>> Seriously excellent! The sound is quite clear and it's the commentary
>> which has the information.
>>
>> Thank you for what you have done so far. I'm keen to see the rest of
>> them when you are able to get them up, Lee.
>>
>> Cheers
>>
>> Elaine in Brisbane, Australia
>>
>
>Thanks Elaine! There are 2 more up now, #3 superstition & #4 crimping.I've put 5 of The Running Tides up on my public skydrive, more to follow.
These are about 10 minutes each, 640×480 .wmv files 40-55 megabytes
Lee
On 5/8/2013 8:15 AM, Elaine de Saxe wrote:
> On Wed, 08 May 2013 04:17:20 -0000, leebonnifield wrote:
>
>> I've put 3 of The Running Tides up on my public skydrive, more to follow.
> Seriously excellent! The sound is quite clear and it's the commentary
> which has the information.
>
> Thank you for what you have done so far. I'm keen to see the rest of
> them when you are able to get them up, Lee.
>
> Cheers
>
> Elaine in Brisbane, Australia
>I've put 3 of The Running Tides up on my public skydrive, more to follow.These are about 10 minutes each, 640×480 .wmv files 40-55 megabytes
When PBS broadcast Series 1 & 2 of The Onedin Line ~1977, an episode of The Running Tide filled out the hour. The numbers in the file names refer to which OL episode of Series 1 they followed. There were 15 different Running Tides for Series 1, then for series 2 PBS repeated the same 15 Running Tides.
Originally recorded on reel-to-reel from PBS broadcast ~1977
copied to 6 hour VHS ~1981
transferred to .wmv ~2012
Some VHS cassettes are better preserved than others, some of these are pretty bad. But the color is mostly sepia anyway.— In shiponedingroup@yahoogroups.com, "LambuLambu@…" <LambuLambu@…> wrote:
>
> Well, after plowing the net with every combination of the words I could think of, I finally found this: http://www.worldcat.org/title/running-tide/oclc/36057253. Don't know if that will be of much help as it's a VHS format, and only 55 minutes (which may cover the first 5 installments), and VHS players are hard to come by these days.
>
>
> Anyone else have any luck finding something? (No luck on Amazon or ebay… yet.)
>
>
> Dino.
>
>
> —–Original Message—–
> From: leebonnifield <lee78@…>
> To: shiponedingroup <shiponedingroup@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Tue, Apr 23, 2013 7:53 pm
> Subject: [shiponedingroup] The Running Tide 10 minute filler after 1977 PBS broadcast of OL
>
>
>
>
>
>
> (thread was "I'm new here")
> On 4/23/2013 12:34 PM, LambuLambu@… wrote:
> > Wow! No PBS channel I could get aired 'The Onedin Line', much less 'The
> > Running Tide' (which sounds like some episodes I'd love to get copies
> > of!).
>
> I have retrieved 8 of them so far from the old 6-hour VHS copies of the older reel-to-reel recordings.
>
> The Running Tide 1 sails & ships.wmv 56,617,094
> The Running Tide 2 navigation.wmv 52,264,818
> The Running Tide 3 superstition.wmv 48,952,614
> The Running Tide 4 arts.wmv 44,848,350
> The Running Tide 5 crimping.wmv 46,112,428
> The Running Tide 6 steam.wmv 49,912,668
> The Running Tide 7 railroads.wmv 34,575,726
> The Running Tide 8 women.wmv 36,975,870
> 9 piracy
> 10 luxury steamers
> 11 seamens' duties
> 12 slave trade
> 13 medicine
> 14 US Civil War
> 15 sea chanties
>
> They are pretty poor technically, some with two sorts of tracking noise and muffled audio, #9 may be too jittery to bother with. # 10-15 I haven't attempted yet. For #1-8 I've made 640×480 WMVs, about 45 meg each for 10 minutes. The narration is the important part, the video is mostly pans and zooms of drawings. A few of my copies came out good. I have not searched to see if they are available in a DVD format, no doubt that would be better quality than my 3rd gen copies. There are no titles except "…the Running tide…" and end credits say only
>
> Produced by WYES New Orleans
> for SECA
> Southern Educational Communications Association
>
> I do recommend their content. Please say so if anybody finds commercially available copies. I probably could upload the ones I have.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>Thanks Richard & Dino for the descriptions of work aloft & the photos!
I'd rather navigate. Even with modern safety equipment it sounds
extremely dangerous. Not to mention the weight of the sail you're
pulling up and the difficulty of grabbing it when it is full of wind.I just spotted what may be gaskets(?) 19 min 31 seconds in to S6N6 The
Reverend's Daughter . I think that's a fore&aft sail, so nobody would go
aloft to shorten it, but I suppose they're still used to tie it at
varying extensions.Yes, the context of sluicing S?N? was James trying to get more speed
(did he EVER want less?) by hauling buckets of seawater aloft and
throwing the water on the sails.On 5/1/2013 4:02 AM, R wrote:> In my experience all the nice girls liked a sailor, not much sign of
> contempt there!In 19th century, crimping! Legal slavery, if a man can be drugged or
knocked unconscious near the docks.> Plus going aloft isn't all that dangerous,
but but but you're standing on a rope? with arms over a polished smooth
(maybe wet) yardarm? & both hands occupied in pulling up canvas? Sounds
like a balancing act to me even without wind and rain and pitching ship
movements, exaggerated at that height. And if you fall into the sea you
won't be visible by the time a fast ship starts back? James left newbie
Samuel clinging to the rigging in a storm just for seasoning S5N5 The
Stowaway.We never see details of the action aloft. And I forgot after reading
Dana 30 years ago — I'm not clear on what you do up there — raise the
bottom edge of square sails (reef)? tie it (with what?) to yard
(dictionary says sailor rolls it up hence he's called "reefer".) Untie
it? And why sluice sails S?N? ?
