The Running Tide 10 minute filler after 1977 PBS broadcast of OL

[galacticprobe]

Wait… does that mean my reply DID come through? But that I just didn't get a copy of it?

Dino.

—–Original Message—–
From: Lee Bonnifield <lee78@localnet.com>
To: shiponedingroup <shiponedingroup@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tue, May 14, 2013 4:44 pm
Subject: Re: [shiponedingroup] Re: The Running Tide 10 minute filler after 1977 PBS broadcast of OL

On 5/14/2013 1:52 AM, LambuLambu@aol.com wrote:> Wow! Loads more
questions. I'll tackle a few so the burden doesn't fall

> all on R. (I'll snip some bits below and leave the bits I'll try to answer.)

Thanks for the explanations & photos! I can see how that double screw
works. And now I remember seeing a turks head knot on a wheel spoke, I
hadn't thought about it marking rudder position.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[galacticprobe]

Okay… just checked on the Group site and sure enough, my reply is there (message #1433 if anyone wants to look it up: showed up on the board May 14th at 1:52 am, according to the listing).

Strange that I never got a copy of it when I usually get a copy of all my other replies. But then Yahoo! Groups has done that to me before.

Go figure.

But just to clarify the master spoke and Turk's Head, it's not so much for marking rudder position; it's to mark the master spoke and "wheel" position so the helmsman can keep count of how many turns of the wheel he's made. (It's also so he can quickly find the master spoke in the blackness of night.) If he only makes a quarter or half turn, he's got to keep that in his head as well. If he's a good helmsman – which he should be if he's standing that watch alone – then he'll know how many degrees of rudder one full turn of the wheel will give. On my buoy tender one turn was 6 degrees; that's not going to be the same for all ships so a helmsman will have to "get the feel" each time he take the wheel of a different lady (so to speak).

Dino.

— In shiponedingroup@yahoogroups.com, "LambuLambu@…" <LambuLambu@…> wrote:
>
> Wait… does that mean my reply DID come through? But that I just didn't get a copy of it?
>
>
> Dino.
>
>
> —–Original Message—–
> From: Lee Bonnifield <lee78@…>
> To: shiponedingroup <shiponedingroup@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Tue, May 14, 2013 4:44 pm
> Subject: Re: [shiponedingroup] Re: The Running Tide 10 minute filler after 1977 PBS broadcast of OL
>
> On 5/14/2013 1:52 AM, LambuLambu@… wrote:> Wow! Loads more
> questions. I'll tackle a few so the burden doesn't fall
> all on R. (I'll snip some bits below and leave the bits I'll try to answer.)
>
> Thanks for the explanations & photos! I can see how that double screw
> works. And now I remember seeing a turks head knot on a wheel spoke, I
> hadn't thought about it marking rudder position.
>

[ivaradi]

Found it! For some inexplicable reason your email was in the spam folder on a different address of mine!
 
R.

— On Thu, 16/5/13, LambuLambu@aol.com <LambuLambu@aol.com> wrote:

From: LambuLambu@aol.com <LambuLambu@aol.com>
Subject: Re: [shiponedingroup] Re: The Running Tide 10 minute filler after 1977 PBS broadcast of OL
To: shiponedingroup@yahoogroups.com
Date: Thursday, 16 May, 2013, 3:43

 

No… no contradictions I can think of, Richard. I'll have to see if I can hunt it down, but that's unlikely as our e-mail settings purge sent mail after a day or so. I do think we were on the same wavelength, though. I did elaborate some on my helmsman quals while I was stationed on my buoy tender in the early 1980s and how I got to know my helm to the point that I didn't need a wheel angle indicator or rudder angle indicator to know where my rudder was, or how long it took to get there. (Might have thrown in a sea story or two as well to go along with that.)

I also made reference to the "master spoke" on a ship's wheel being marked by (usually) a Turk's Head knot, or in some cases a differently carved wheel pin: the master spoke being at the center top of the wheel when the rudder was at amidships (if things were aligned properly). I covered how on my buoy tender one full turn of the wheel gave 6 degrees of rudder, and that on average "full" rudder was considered to be 30 degrees: hard or emergency rudder was 35 degrees – at least on the classes of ships I'd been stationed on.

I did provide links to images of the steering mechanism you described. I can find them again if my reply is forever lost in the "bit bucket". (Visual aids are good at times like that.)

Most everything else was on par with what you said, though I may have gone into more detail about freeboard and how that would come into play with heeling and taking water over the rails.

Dino.

—–Original Message—–
From: R <advcour@btinternet.com>
To: shiponedingroup <shiponedingroup@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tue, May 14, 2013 3:21 pm
Subject: Re: [shiponedingroup] Re: The Running Tide 10 minute filler after 1977 PBS broadcast of OL

I look forward to seeing your response, wherever it has got to! (sorry if I've contradicted anything you have written!)

Richard.
— On Tue, 14/5/13, LambuLambu@aol.com <LambuLambu@aol.com> wrote:

From: LambuLambu@aol.com <LambuLambu@aol.com>
Subject: Re: [shiponedingroup] Re: The Running Tide 10 minute filler after 1977 PBS broadcast of OL
To: shiponedingroup@yahoogroups.com
Date: Tuesday, 14 May, 2013, 19:39

Wow! Great reply. I sent one last night answering some of this. I wonder why it never came through?

Watch… it will show up well after this discussion is over.

Dino.

—–Original Message—–
From: R <advcour@btinternet.com>
To: shiponedingroup <shiponedingroup@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tue, May 14, 2013 9:17 am
Subject: Re: [shiponedingroup] Re: The Running Tide 10 minute filler after 1977 PBS broadcast of OL

this is hilarious, where would we be if pre-Harrison sailors didn't
trust captains with vague heuristics

A good captain would be trusted to the hilt and is a god-like figure onboard, his was and still is the final word, onboard. Sadly some actually come to believe it in other aspects of their lives!
I've sailed with men I trust with my life and others I wouldn't trust as far as I could spit against a strong wind, (watch the Spencer Tracy film 'Captains Couragous', technically very good too) that doesn't mean you neccessarily like the good ones though. One fella I sailed under was a total parentless so & so but his navigation and seamanship was second to none such as entering a particularly difficult harbour in Brittany in thick fog by dead reckoning alone, that is with no electronic navigational aids.

"That is astounding, precision engineering that allows such a huge mass
to be kept centered in an unstable equilibrium with such a small force."

Yes, it does seem so on the surface but most wheels have some sort of gearing to reduce the load on your arms, Soren Larsen used the gearbox from a lorry, sorry, 'truck' for our colonial cousins, earlier ships used custom made 'worm' gearing. All sailing vessels will have a tiller of some sorts whatever steering system is used and it's the tiller that is then moved by another means to allow one man to move the rudder however large, even ships in the time of Columbus used the Whipstaff', a simple and crude method of moving the tiller by pivoting a vertical lever up through a slot in the deck, the lower end attached to the end of the tiller and the upper end pushed to port or starboard to steer. All tillers should have an emergency method of steering should the steering gear fail and mostly that was blocks and tackles rigged either side of the tiller to each side of the vessel, this was how the wheel came into being, as steering evolved the ends of the
rope tackles could be taken to the bottom of the whipstaff then later in history the whipstaff done away with and to a drum turned by a wheel, many big steamers were still being steered this way centuries later with chains running through tubes along the decks.

The most important aspect to steering a sailing vessel is to retain some 'feel' in the helm and to be able to make the ship react immediately to any movement of the helm, a straightforward tiller is the best for this but when vessels get larger and the tiller longer with the increased size of the rudder so becomes too difficult to handle some form of gearing has to be introduced which is where one begins to lose feel if not done well or too much.

Motor vessels are a different kettle of fish, they are being steered to a course not the wind so do not need either an immediate response or the same degree of feel in relation to the wind, many will be designed with what are known as balanced rudders, ie a small section of the rudder area forward of the rudder post which takes most if not all water pressure out of the equasion, a practice never done on sailing vessels as this can kill any feel in a helm completely but can make lighter steering in a motorship which in the early days before servo assisted steering could also allow a smaller wheel to be used.

As to angle of the rudder, not really in issue except in regards to drag affecting speed, the greater the angle the greater the drag. As to angle of heel vs rudder, the further from vertical the rudder post is the less turning effect the rudder has on the vessel, put simply steering is being lost and the vessel will round up into the wind uncontrolably. This is why many ultra modern racing yachts have two rudders and helms, each rudder splayed outwards so when heeled one rudder is nearer to vertical than the other.

Knowing visually how central or 'midships' the wheel is doesn't really matter and how many full turns it takes to move the rudder only dictates sensitivity, Formula One cars = a fraction of a turn of the wheel and whoosh, it's off the track vs my old Landrover with it's huge wheel = half a turn and it gradually heads for the kerb!
The feel will tell you if things are out of kilter, too much weather helm, ie too much effort to hold her on a straight course will mean basically she's out of balance and the sails need adjusting, once you've taken the helm and settled into her you'll quickly learn how many spokes are needed to keep her on course, having a mark on the central spoke to feel in the dark or see in daylight is a simple aid to knowing how many spokes are needed for any one course but again not desperately needed.

In theory on a well balanced vessel yes, if you were to let go of the wheel the rudder should return to midships and if exceptionally well balanced will sail herself with no one touching the wheel or tiller but the vessel will probably just keep swinging up into the wind which is a good thing, a kind of safety measure and helps you steer or if you fall overboard as a solo sailor the yacht will stop. Steering means giving her a spoke or two, watch the compass begin it's swing back on course and before she does return the wheel to 'neutral' position and wait for the ship to swing back on course, as the desired course approaches on the compass give her those spokes again to slow her swing, watch for the compass to stop and hopefully settle on the exact course but more likely swing a degree or two past it so re-apply however many spokes are needed to bring her back and so it goes. Basically you're only actually steering her in one direction, she will
bring herself back the other way. You need to do it!

Angle of deck before taking water? Too many variables for any hard and fast rules, rule of thumb, maybe 30deg and upwards? Common angles of heel? Anything from horizontal to vertical! (almost joking!) vertical would be a broach or being knocked down, not nice.

Yes hull shape plays it's part but also the angle of the mast will mean the sails are not working efficiently. if at all and steering compromised.

The skipper of Osprey passed comment on the owners reproductive ability, intelligence and parentage in that order and in words of two syllables each………(FSB)

Yes, you've got it spot on with regards spiralling the yards.

Clean wet decks are slippy! Deck shoes make a huge difference but greasy dirty decks are more slippy when wet. They used sand as well as a stone, an early form of sandpapering!
Running is just plain dangerous especially on a heaving deck, imagine running and suddenly going weightless, heaven knows where you'd land! The effect increasing at the ends of the ship. Great fun though!

Coming about is changing course by turning the ship's bows through the eye of the wind, ie the direction the wind is coming from.
Getting caught in irons is when attempting to go about and the vessel stalls and stops dead in the water pointing straight into the wind and wont turn either way as there's no water passing over the rudder to give steerage. The solution can be to back a headsail or two by pulling it's sheet taught in the hope the wind will get on the wrong side of it and push the head of the ship across, at the same time turn the rudder in the opposite direction to help the stern swing and get the wind in a position where the rest of the sails can fill and begin to get her underway again, basically go astern or backwards to reverse out of the predicament.
I have done almost this on the Soren when filming was done in Falmouth we were heading up Channel home to Brightlingsea in Essex and too close in to Portland Bill, the wind suddenly backed and pushed us into Lyme Bay. We had to quickly fire up the engine and motor out of the situation but in the days of sail wiith no motors it would have been a different problem indeed! Sailing pilots (books) all said to give Portland a very wide berth with winds ahead of the beam.

Leanora's swinging boom? I don't know the episode but booms do swing for all sorts of reasons either with or without sail set.
If sailing downwind or in very light or flukey winds in a lumpy sea on a rolling ship a boom can suddenly swing or flail about, it is common practice, even on modern yachts, to rig a preventer, a simple length of rope, to hold the boom one side or the other to help control it.

Cor blimey missus, I should write a book and tell you to buy a copy!!

Hope that answers all so far? Ask more anytime..

Richard.

— On Tue, 14/5/13, Lee Bonnifield <lee78@localnet.com> wrote:

From: Lee Bonnifield <lee78@localnet.com>
Subject: Re: [shiponedingroup] Re: The Running Tide 10 minute filler after 1977 PBS broadcast of OL
To: shiponedingroup@yahoogroups.com
Date: Tuesday, 14 May, 2013, 3:19

On 5/12/2013 9:54 AM, R wrote:
> Gosh, you want a whole treatise on the subject of naval architecture eh?

Thanks for all the info! I understand how specific questions would be a
lot easier, what you've provided is useful.

> Everything to do with the design of a vessel is a compromise and each
> part has a direct effect on the rest, it's far too complicated a subject
> to cover in one short email, prismatic coefficients, lateral plain
> centres, the curve of areas when drawn giving an indication of weather
> or lee helm at the drawing board stage but that in turn being as a
> direct correlation to the centre of effort of combined or reefed sails,
> I can hear you snoring already! It would be much more simple for me to
> answer one direct question at a time.

No snoring, but I understand this is a very complicated problem, trying
to go X direction when the wind is blowing Y direction. and sails are
angled Z, rudder W, keel V, submerged hull shape U.

> Pre Harrison Longitude was guessed, it was common practise from the days
> of Columbus to sail South to a known Latitude, 'Sail South until the
> butter melts then head West',

this is hilarious, where would we be if pre-Harrison sailors didn't
trust captains with vague heuristics

> wind I felt a pull at the wheel, weather helm it's known as, ie the
> vessel wants to round up into the wind and you need to apply pressure on
> the wheel to stop her and all it took to hold her on course was one or
> at the most two spokes from midships,

That is astounding, precision engineering that allows such a huge mass
to be kept centered in an unstable equilibrium with such a small force.

I don't see any marker on the wheel that would let you know that the
rudder is directly in line with the keel. Is there one, how do you know
how many spokes you are from midships? I see 8 spokes on Soren Larsen
wheel. How many 360 degree turns of the wheel would move the rudder from
full left to full right? What angle to keel is full left? If you let go
of the wheel. will the rudder line up with the keel?

> as the further a vessel heels the slower she will be and more
> difficult she is to handle.

Because of the different shape of the hull cross section below water
when boat is heeling?
I see that a symmetrical cross section (no
heeling) would be most sensitive to rudder direction. A horizontal deck
might happen only with sailing down wind, what deck angles from
horizontal are common?

> rest of us were in our bunks. During his watch the wind slowly increased
> in strength and due to his inexperience he let the ship
> heel more and more until she was taking water over the rail,

What angle from horizontal does the deck have to be to take water over
the rail?

> the motion
> threw the very experienced Dutch skipper out of his bunk! He came on
> deck to find the owner with a huge grin saying "Man look at the old girl
> go!!". I can't repeat what the skipper said in reply……. !

Let's make this deck more horizontal please before we sink

> 'stacking' on Sea Cloud, each yard being held in it's position by a
> Brace from each end. This means that the smallest sail, the one at the
> very top of the mast, will have it's windward edge closer to the
> direction from where the wind is coming than the one below and the one
> below that and so on, so

The bit about stacking the sails in a spiral makes sense, and I hadn't
noticed it. So, the wind changes direction, the helmsman notices the
highest sail luffing.

> preferably by regularly keeping a weather eye on the
> 'Luff' of that small sail and be able to take action by 'Putting the
> Helm Down'

that is, adjusting the angle of the rudder so that the keel comes closer
to the direction of the wind (closer to sailing directly downwind) and
the highest small sail is filled again

> Holy stoning with a block of soft sandstone the size of a large bible,
> hence the name,

see, I learned something, I figured it was pumice & holy because pumice
floats
Cleaning a dirty deck improves traction, OK. Why isn't a heeling clean
wet deck so slippery that you can't run on it?

What is going on when I hear:
"I don't want her in irons"
"prepare to come about"
Leonora almost gets walloped with a swinging boom — altho I guess that
happened when a rope was loose (S3N1), that boom should have been tied
to leeward

Lee

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[leebonnifield]

The Running Tide #6 steam

is up on my public skydrive

http://sdrv.ms/12cgzcR

[leebonnifield]

The Running Tide #7 railroads

is up on my public skydrive

http://sdrv.ms/12cgzcR

What do railroads have to do with TOL? Series 1 N7 is "Passage to
Pernambuco", where James implausibly distracted a crew of 1000 railroad
workers to dig wild grape vines in return for a shipload of salt. TRT
was produced independently of TOL but there was some attempt to match
them, so TRT #6 steam was added to S1N6 "Salvage", in which Albert
used his steam pinnace to prevent Callon from salvaging Charlotte
Rhodes. Was that also where Albert corresponded with John Ericson, a
real steam engineer mentioned in TRT #6? TRT #5 crimping was added to
S1N5 "Catch As Can" when Baines was crimped. Anne learned to navigate in
S1N2 "Plain Sailing".

[chrisjbrady]

Great uploads. Thank you. Do you have more. Please keep them coming!!!! Chris B.

— On Sun, 19/5/13, Lee Bonnifield <lee78@localnet.com> wrote:

From: Lee Bonnifield <lee78@localnet.com>
Subject: Re: [shiponedingroup] Re: The Running Tide 10 minute filler after 1977 PBS broadcast of OL
To: shiponedingroup@yahoogroups.com
Date: Sunday, 19 May, 2013, 18:25

 

The Running Tide #7 railroads

is up on my public skydrive

http://sdrv.ms/12cgzcR

What do railroads have to do with TOL? Series 1 N7 is "Passage to

Pernambuco", where James implausibly distracted a crew of 1000 railroad

workers to dig wild grape vines in return for a shipload of salt. TRT

was produced independently of TOL but there was some attempt to match

them, so TRT #6 steam was added to S1N6 "Salvage", in which Albert

used his steam pinnace to prevent Callon from salvaging Charlotte

Rhodes. Was that also where Albert corresponded with John Ericson, a

real steam engineer mentioned in TRT #6? TRT #5 crimping was added to

S1N5 "Catch As Can" when Baines was crimped. Anne learned to navigate in

S1N2 "Plain Sailing".

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[leebonnifield]

On 5/22/2013 8:57 AM, Chris J Brady wrote:

> Great uploads. Thank you. Do you have more. Please keep them coming!!!!

I'm glad you like them! Here's another, I call it

The Running Tide 8 steamboat women

on my public skydrive

http://sdrv.ms/12cgzcR

Series 1 N8 "Homecoming"
James comes home to find Anne's old boyfriend is visiting

[coolowl2001]

On Wed, 22 May 2013 20:20:48 -0400, Lee Bonnifield wrote:

> Running Tide 8 steamboat women

Particularly interesting for me, being a woman fascinated by steam. In
the context of the times, strong independent women were the exception.

Thank you Lee for converting and posting these videos 🙂

Cheers

Elaine in Brisbane, Australia

[leebonnifield]

The Running Tide 9 smuggling, piracy
is up

http://sdrv.ms/12cgzcR

sorry, it is very poor video quality

S1N9 "When My Ship Comes Home" James smuggles war supplies to rebels

On 5/26/2013 7:44 PM, Elaine de Saxe wrote:
> On Wed, 22 May 2013 20:20:48 -0400, Lee Bonnifield wrote:
>
>> Running Tide 8 steamboat women
> Particularly interesting for me, being a woman fascinated by steam. In
> the context of the times, strong independent women were the exception.
>
> Thank you Lee for converting and posting these videos 🙂
>
> Cheers
>
> Elaine in Brisbane, Australia

Toot toot! I liked the calliope too.

[leebonnifield]

The Running Tide 10 luxury steamers
is up

http://sdrv.ms/12cgzcR

S1N10 "A Very Important Passenger"
Garibaldi might have wished he'd taken a luxury steamer, given the
number of crew who wanted to kill him on James' ship

also after several attempts I made a little better transfer of TRT 9
smuggling, piracy and put it up to replace the previous copy
so if you saw TRT 9 before today 2013-06-12 you might want to look at
that one again

[leebonnifield]

The Running Tide 11 mutiny, duties
is up

http://sdrv.ms/12cgzcR

S1N11 "Mutiny"
One of James' captains has gone mad and driven the crew to mutiny

[leebonnifield]

The Running Tide 12 slave ships
is up

http://sdrv.ms/12cgzcR

S1N12 "Cry of the Blackbird"
James is paid to transport Papuans by a corrupt parson who has tricked
James & the Papuans into thinking they are converts going to a mission
school in Victoria. But they figure out their destiny is slavery in the
cane fields, and they send the parson to hell quick-time.

The Running Tide describes much more brutal treatment for slaves being
transported. This New Orleans production says nothing about the cruelty
of slavery, it focuses on the shipboard conditions and blames the
captains from New England ports who profited from the trade.

[leebonnifield]

The Running Tide 13 medicine
is up

http://sdrv.ms/12cgzcR

S1N13 Shadow of Doubt
James takes immigrants to Canada. Two of them are Sarah Onedin's brother
Jeremy Stirling and his wife Kate. They become sick,
James diagnoses smallpox. Jeremy dies. James writes "natural causes"
in the log in order to evade quarantine.

[leebonnifield]

The Running Tide 14 American Civil War
is up

http://sdrv.ms/12cgzcR

S1N14 Blockade
James runs the Yankee blockade to bring war supplies to the Confederates.

TRT14 mentions steam engineer John Ericsson, who was designing the
ironclad Monitor about the time Albert was writing to Ericsson in S1N13.

[chrisjbrady]

Wonderful.Just a request – can the files be captioned on the SkyDrive page please. I can't remember which ones I've downloaded!! Thanks. Chris B.

— On Sat, 15/6/13, Lee Bonnifield <lee78@localnet.com> wrote:

From: Lee Bonnifield <lee78@localnet.com>
Subject: Re: [shiponedingroup] Re: The Running Tide 10 minute filler after 1977 PBS broadcast of OL
To: shiponedingroup@yahoogroups.com
Date: Saturday, 15 June, 2013, 19:37

 

The Running Tide 13 medicine

is up

http://sdrv.ms/12cgzcR

S1N13 Shadow of Doubt

James takes immigrants to Canada. Two of them are Sarah Onedin's brother

Jeremy Stirling and his wife Kate. They become sick,

James diagnoses smallpox. Jeremy dies. James writes "natural causes"

in the log in order to evade quarantine.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Author]

Posts