The Running Tide 10 minute filler after 1977 PBS broadcast of OL

[leebonnifield]

(thread was "I'm new here")

On 4/23/2013 12:34 PM, LambuLambu@aol.com wrote:
> Wow! No PBS channel I could get aired 'The Onedin Line', much less 'The
> Running Tide' (which sounds like some episodes I'd love to get copies
> of!).

I have retrieved 8 of them so far from the old 6-hour VHS copies of the older reel-to-reel recordings.

The Running Tide 1 sails & ships.wmv 56,617,094
The Running Tide 2 navigation.wmv 52,264,818
The Running Tide 3 superstition.wmv 48,952,614
The Running Tide 4 arts.wmv 44,848,350
The Running Tide 5 crimping.wmv 46,112,428
The Running Tide 6 steam.wmv 49,912,668
The Running Tide 7 railroads.wmv 34,575,726
The Running Tide 8 women.wmv 36,975,870
9 piracy
10 luxury steamers
11 seamens' duties
12 slave trade
13 medicine
14 US Civil War
15 sea chanties

They are pretty poor technically, some with two sorts of tracking noise and muffled audio, #9 may be too jittery to bother with. # 10-15 I haven't attempted yet. For #1-8 I've made 640×480 WMVs, about 45 meg each for 10 minutes. The narration is the important part, the video is mostly pans and zooms of drawings. A few of my copies came out good. I have not searched to see if they are available in a DVD format, no doubt that would be better quality than my 3rd gen copies. There are no titles except "…the Running tide…" and end credits say only

Produced by WYES New Orleans
for SECA
Southern Educational Communications Association

I do recommend their content. Please say so if anybody finds commercially available copies. I probably could upload the ones I have.

[galacticprobe]

Well, after plowing the net with every combination of the words I could think of, I finally found this: http://www.worldcat.org/title/running-tide/oclc/36057253. Don't know if that will be of much help as it's a VHS format, and only 55 minutes (which may cover the first 5 installments), and VHS players are hard to come by these days.

Anyone else have any luck finding something? (No luck on Amazon or ebay… yet.)

Dino.

—–Original Message—–
From: leebonnifield <lee78@localnet.com>
To: shiponedingroup <shiponedingroup@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tue, Apr 23, 2013 7:53 pm
Subject: [shiponedingroup] The Running Tide 10 minute filler after 1977 PBS broadcast of OL

(thread was "I'm new here")

On 4/23/2013 12:34 PM, LambuLambu@aol.com wrote:
> Wow! No PBS channel I could get aired 'The Onedin Line', much less 'The
> Running Tide' (which sounds like some episodes I'd love to get copies
> of!).

I have retrieved 8 of them so far from the old 6-hour VHS copies of the older reel-to-reel recordings.

The Running Tide 1 sails & ships.wmv 56,617,094
The Running Tide 2 navigation.wmv 52,264,818
The Running Tide 3 superstition.wmv 48,952,614
The Running Tide 4 arts.wmv 44,848,350
The Running Tide 5 crimping.wmv 46,112,428
The Running Tide 6 steam.wmv 49,912,668
The Running Tide 7 railroads.wmv 34,575,726
The Running Tide 8 women.wmv 36,975,870
9 piracy
10 luxury steamers
11 seamens' duties
12 slave trade
13 medicine
14 US Civil War
15 sea chanties

They are pretty poor technically, some with two sorts of tracking noise and muffled audio, #9 may be too jittery to bother with. # 10-15 I haven't attempted yet. For #1-8 I've made 640×480 WMVs, about 45 meg each for 10 minutes. The narration is the important part, the video is mostly pans and zooms of drawings. A few of my copies came out good. I have not searched to see if they are available in a DVD format, no doubt that would be better quality than my 3rd gen copies. There are no titles except "…the Running tide…" and end credits say only

Produced by WYES New Orleans
for SECA
Southern Educational Communications Association

I do recommend their content. Please say so if anybody finds commercially available copies. I probably could upload the ones I have.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[leebonnifield]

Thanks for searching! What you found is surely the right "Running
Tide". I don't understand the format, being only 55 minutes and 7 titles
— surely they could have fit all 15 titles on one VHS. I'm guessing
there are 15 in all because PBS used a different one after each of the
Onedin Lines in Series 1, then for series 2 they repeated from the same 15.

Without objection I'm going to try to upload the Running Tide about
crimping. It followed S1N5 "Catch as Can" where Callon tried to crimp
Baines. Technically this one is of mediocre quality, I have some
better, some worse. The topic is surprising history to me.

But not tonight, I'll need to borrow a neighbor's broadband for that 46
meg upload. To test that I know how to put a file into the files area
I'll put up an Onedin Line captcha tonight.

On 4/24/2013 1:19 AM, LambuLambu@aol.com wrote:
> Well, after plowing the net with every combination of the words I could
> think of, I finally found this:
> http://www.worldcat.org/title/running-tide/oclc/36057253. Don't know if
> that will be of much help as it's a VHS format, and only 55 minutes
> (which may cover the first 5 installments), and VHS players are hard to
> come by these days.
>
> Anyone else have any luck finding something? (No luck on Amazon or
> ebay… yet.)
>
> Dino.
>
> —–Original Message—–
> From: leebonnifield <lee78@localnet.com <mailto:lee78%40localnet.com>>
> To: shiponedingroup <shiponedingroup@yahoogroups.com
> <mailto:shiponedingroup%40yahoogroups.com>>
> Sent: Tue, Apr 23, 2013 7:53 pm
> Subject: [shiponedingroup] The Running Tide 10 minute filler after 1977
> PBS broadcast of OL
>
> (thread was "I'm new here")
> On 4/23/2013 12:34 PM, LambuLambu@aol.com <mailto:LambuLambu%40aol.com>
> wrote:
>> Wow! No PBS channel I could get aired 'The Onedin Line', much less 'The
>> Running Tide' (which sounds like some episodes I'd love to get copies
>> of!).
>
> I have retrieved 8 of them so far from the old 6-hour VHS copies of the
> older reel-to-reel recordings.
>
> The Running Tide 1 sails & ships.wmv 56,617,094
> The Running Tide 2 navigation.wmv 52,264,818
> The Running Tide 3 superstition.wmv 48,952,614
> The Running Tide 4 arts.wmv 44,848,350
> The Running Tide 5 crimping.wmv 46,112,428
> The Running Tide 6 steam.wmv 49,912,668
> The Running Tide 7 railroads.wmv 34,575,726
> The Running Tide 8 women.wmv 36,975,870
> 9 piracy
> 10 luxury steamers
> 11 seamens' duties
> 12 slave trade
> 13 medicine
> 14 US Civil War
> 15 sea chanties
>
> They are pretty poor technically, some with two sorts of tracking noise
> and muffled audio, #9 may be too jittery to bother with. # 10-15 I
> haven't attempted yet. For #1-8 I've made 640×480 WMVs, about 45 meg
> each for 10 minutes. The narration is the important part, the video is
> mostly pans and zooms of drawings. A few of my copies came out good. I
> have not searched to see if they are available in a DVD format, no doubt
> that would be better quality than my 3rd gen copies. There are no titles
> except "…the Running tide…" and end credits say only
>
> Produced by WYES New Orleans
> for SECA
> Southern Educational Communications Association
>
> I do recommend their content. Please say so if anybody finds
> commercially available copies. I probably could upload the ones I have.
>

[leebonnifield]

I've put 3 of The Running Tides up on my public skydrive, more to follow.

http://sdrv.ms/12cgzcR

These are about 10 minutes each, 640×480 .wmv files 40-55 megabytes

When PBS broadcast Series 1 & 2 of The Onedin Line ~1977, an episode of The Running Tide filled out the hour. The numbers in the file names refer to which OL episode of Series 1 they followed. There were 15 different Running Tides for Series 1, then for series 2 PBS repeated the same 15 Running Tides.

Originally recorded on reel-to-reel from PBS broadcast ~1977
copied to 6 hour VHS ~1981
transferred to .wmv ~2012
Some VHS cassettes are better preserved than others, some of these are pretty bad. But the color is mostly sepia anyway.

— In shiponedingroup@yahoogroups.com, "LambuLambu@…" <LambuLambu@…> wrote:
>
> Well, after plowing the net with every combination of the words I could think of, I finally found this: http://www.worldcat.org/title/running-tide/oclc/36057253. Don't know if that will be of much help as it's a VHS format, and only 55 minutes (which may cover the first 5 installments), and VHS players are hard to come by these days.
>
>
> Anyone else have any luck finding something? (No luck on Amazon or ebay… yet.)
>
>
> Dino.
>
>
> —–Original Message—–
> From: leebonnifield <lee78@…>
> To: shiponedingroup <shiponedingroup@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Tue, Apr 23, 2013 7:53 pm
> Subject: [shiponedingroup] The Running Tide 10 minute filler after 1977 PBS broadcast of OL
>
>
>
>
>
>
> (thread was "I'm new here")
> On 4/23/2013 12:34 PM, LambuLambu@… wrote:
> > Wow! No PBS channel I could get aired 'The Onedin Line', much less 'The
> > Running Tide' (which sounds like some episodes I'd love to get copies
> > of!).
>
> I have retrieved 8 of them so far from the old 6-hour VHS copies of the older reel-to-reel recordings.
>
> The Running Tide 1 sails & ships.wmv 56,617,094
> The Running Tide 2 navigation.wmv 52,264,818
> The Running Tide 3 superstition.wmv 48,952,614
> The Running Tide 4 arts.wmv 44,848,350
> The Running Tide 5 crimping.wmv 46,112,428
> The Running Tide 6 steam.wmv 49,912,668
> The Running Tide 7 railroads.wmv 34,575,726
> The Running Tide 8 women.wmv 36,975,870
> 9 piracy
> 10 luxury steamers
> 11 seamens' duties
> 12 slave trade
> 13 medicine
> 14 US Civil War
> 15 sea chanties
>
> They are pretty poor technically, some with two sorts of tracking noise and muffled audio, #9 may be too jittery to bother with. # 10-15 I haven't attempted yet. For #1-8 I've made 640×480 WMVs, about 45 meg each for 10 minutes. The narration is the important part, the video is mostly pans and zooms of drawings. A few of my copies came out good. I have not searched to see if they are available in a DVD format, no doubt that would be better quality than my 3rd gen copies. There are no titles except "…the Running tide…" and end credits say only
>
> Produced by WYES New Orleans
> for SECA
> Southern Educational Communications Association
>
> I do recommend their content. Please say so if anybody finds commercially available copies. I probably could upload the ones I have.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

[coolowl2001]

On Wed, 08 May 2013 04:17:20 -0000, leebonnifield wrote:

> I've put 3 of The Running Tides up on my public skydrive, more to follow.

Seriously excellent! The sound is quite clear and it's the commentary
which has the information.

Thank you for what you have done so far. I'm keen to see the rest of
them when you are able to get them up, Lee.

Cheers

Elaine in Brisbane, Australia

[leebonnifield]

Thanks Elaine! There are 2 more up now, #3 superstition & #4 crimping.

I've put 5 of The Running Tides up on my public skydrive, more to follow.

http://sdrv.ms/12cgzcR

These are about 10 minutes each, 640×480 .wmv files 40-55 megabytes

Lee

On 5/8/2013 8:15 AM, Elaine de Saxe wrote:
> On Wed, 08 May 2013 04:17:20 -0000, leebonnifield wrote:
>
>> I've put 3 of The Running Tides up on my public skydrive, more to follow.
> Seriously excellent! The sound is quite clear and it's the commentary
> which has the information.
>
> Thank you for what you have done so far. I'm keen to see the rest of
> them when you are able to get them up, Lee.
>
> Cheers
>
> Elaine in Brisbane, Australia
>

[leebonnifield]

whoops I meant #5 crimping

On 5/9/2013 7:04 PM, Lee Bonnifield wrote:
> Thanks Elaine! There are 2 more up now, #3 superstition & #4 crimping.
>
> I've put 5 of The Running Tides up on my public skydrive, more to follow.
>
> http://sdrv.ms/12cgzcR
>
> These are about 10 minutes each, 640×480 .wmv files 40-55 megabytes
>
> Lee
>
> On 5/8/2013 8:15 AM, Elaine de Saxe wrote:
>> On Wed, 08 May 2013 04:17:20 -0000, leebonnifield wrote:
>>
>>> I've put 3 of The Running Tides up on my public skydrive, more to follow.
>> Seriously excellent! The sound is quite clear and it's the commentary
>> which has the information.
>>
>> Thank you for what you have done so far. I'm keen to see the rest of
>> them when you are able to get them up, Lee.
>>
>> Cheers
>>
>> Elaine in Brisbane, Australia
>>
>
>

[chrisjbrady]

Brilliant. Thank you. Were these broadcast in the UK or only in the US or maybe Australia? Chris B.

— On Fri, 10/5/13, Lee Bonnifield <lee78@localnet.com> wrote:

> From: Lee Bonnifield <lee78@localnet.com>
> Subject: Re: [shiponedingroup] Re: The Running Tide 10 minute filler after 1977 PBS broadcast of OL
> To: shiponedingroup@yahoogroups.com
> Date: Friday, 10 May, 2013, 0:05
> whoops I meant  #5 crimping
> On 5/9/2013 7:04 PM, Lee Bonnifield wrote:
> > Thanks Elaine! There are 2 more up now, #3 superstition
> & #4 crimping.
> >
> > I've put 5 of The Running Tides up on my public
> skydrive, more to follow.
> >
> > http://sdrv.ms/12cgzcR
> >
> > These are about 10 minutes each, 640×480 .wmv files
> 40-55 megabytes
> >
> > Lee
> >
> > On 5/8/2013 8:15 AM, Elaine de Saxe wrote:
> >> On Wed, 08 May 2013 04:17:20 -0000, leebonnifield
> wrote:
> >>
> >>> I've put 3 of The Running Tides up on my public
> skydrive, more to follow.
> >> Seriously excellent! The sound is quite clear and
> it's the commentary
> >> which has the information.
> >>
> >> Thank you for what you have done so far. I'm keen
> to see the rest of
> >> them when you are able to get them up, Lee.
> >>
> >> Cheers
> >>
> >> Elaine in Brisbane, Australia
> >>
> >
> >
>
>
> ————————————
>
> Website about the Onedin Line http://www.sound-research.co.uk/onedin_line.htm Yahoo!
> Groups Links
>
>
>     shiponedingroup-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com
>
>

[ivaradi]

Judging by the inaccuracies, bias and different cultural/technical terminology I'd hazzard a guess only in the USA?
 
Richard.

— On Fri, 10/5/13, Chris J Brady <chrisjbrady@yahoo.com> wrote:

From: Chris J Brady <chrisjbrady@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [shiponedingroup] Re: The Running Tide 10 minute filler after 1977 PBS broadcast of OL
To: shiponedingroup@yahoogroups.com
Date: Friday, 10 May, 2013, 16:39

 

Brilliant. Thank you. Were these broadcast in the UK or only in the US or maybe Australia? Chris B.

— On Fri, 10/5/13, Lee Bonnifield <lee78@localnet.com> wrote:

> From: Lee Bonnifield <lee78@localnet.com>
> Subject: Re: [shiponedingroup] Re: The Running Tide 10 minute filler after 1977 PBS broadcast of OL
> To: shiponedingroup@yahoogroups.com
> Date: Friday, 10 May, 2013, 0:05
> whoops I meant  #5 crimping
> On 5/9/2013 7:04 PM, Lee Bonnifield wrote:
> > Thanks Elaine! There are 2 more up now, #3 superstition
> & #4 crimping.
> >
> > I've put 5 of The Running Tides up on my public
> skydrive, more to follow.
> >
> > http://sdrv.ms/12cgzcR
> >
> > These are about 10 minutes each, 640×480 .wmv files
> 40-55 megabytes
> >
> > Lee
> >
> > On 5/8/2013 8:15 AM, Elaine de Saxe wrote:
> >> On Wed, 08 May 2013 04:17:20 -0000, leebonnifield
> wrote:
> >>
> >>> I've put 3 of The Running Tides up on my public
> skydrive, more to follow.
> >> Seriously excellent! The sound is quite clear and
> it's the commentary
> >> which has the information.
> >>
> >> Thank you for what you have done so far. I'm keen
> to see the rest of
> >> them when you are able to get them up, Lee.
> >>
> >> Cheers
> >>
> >> Elaine in Brisbane, Australia
> >>
> >
> >
>
>
> ————————————
>
> Website about the Onedin Line http://www.sound-research.co.uk/onedin_line.htm Yahoo!
> Groups Links
>
>
>     shiponedingroup-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[leebonnifield]

Running Tide was produced in New Orleans. Some of the later titles are
more obviously US-based, like the "women" episode is largely about
female steamboat captains on the Mississippi. I guess it was only
broadcast in the US, PBS needed to fill up the hour when they broadcast
series 1 & 2 of OL. Years later when Arts & Entertainment cable showed
series 5+ they inserted commercial breaks so they didn't need filler.

What's inaccurate?

And what's that cover they remove to look at the compass? I'm guessing
there's an oil lamp and lens in there so the helmsman can see the
bearing at night?

Lee

On 5/10/2013 12:07 PM, R wrote:
> Judging by the inaccuracies, bias and different cultural/technical
> terminology I'd hazzard a guess only in the USA?
>
> Richard.
>
> — On Fri, 10/5/13, Chris J Brady <chrisjbrady@yahoo.com
> <mailto:chrisjbrady%40yahoo.com>> wrote:
>
> From: Chris J Brady <chrisjbrady@yahoo.com <mailto:chrisjbrady%40yahoo.com>>
> Subject: Re: [shiponedingroup] Re: The Running Tide 10 minute filler
> after 1977 PBS broadcast of OL
> To: shiponedingroup@yahoogroups.com
> <mailto:shiponedingroup%40yahoogroups.com>
> Date: Friday, 10 May, 2013, 16:39
>
>
>
> Brilliant. Thank you. Were these broadcast in the UK or only in the US
> or maybe Australia? Chris B.
>
> — On Fri, 10/5/13, Lee Bonnifield <lee78@localnet.com
> <mailto:lee78%40localnet.com>> wrote:
>
>> From: Lee Bonnifield <lee78@localnet.com <mailto:lee78%40localnet.com>>
>> Subject: Re: [shiponedingroup] Re: The Running Tide 10 minute filler after 1977 PBS broadcast of OL
>> To:shiponedingroup@yahoogroups.com <mailto:shiponedingroup%40yahoogroups.com>
>> Date: Friday, 10 May, 2013, 0:05
>> whoops I meant #5 crimping
>> On 5/9/2013 7:04 PM, Lee Bonnifield wrote:
>> > Thanks Elaine! There are 2 more up now, #3 superstition
>> & #4 crimping.
>> >
>> > I've put 5 of The Running Tides up on my public
>> skydrive, more to follow.
>> >
>> >http://sdrv.ms/12cgzcR
>> >
>> > These are about 10 minutes each, 640×480 .wmv files
>> 40-55 megabytes
>> >
>> > Lee
>> >
>> > On 5/8/2013 8:15 AM, Elaine de Saxe wrote:
>> >> On Wed, 08 May 2013 04:17:20 -0000, leebonnifield
>> wrote:
>> >>
>> >>> I've put 3 of The Running Tides up on my public
>> skydrive, more to follow.
>> >> Seriously excellent! The sound is quite clear and
>> it's the commentary
>> >> which has the information.
>> >>
>> >> Thank you for what you have done so far. I'm keen
>> to see the rest of
>> >> them when you are able to get them up, Lee.
>> >>
>> >> Cheers
>> >>
>> >> Elaine in Brisbane, Australia

[ivaradi]

I didn't keep notes when watching but off the top of my head, describing fore and aft rigged boats with only one mast as sloops but showing a picture of a cutter.
Implying an American discovered how to calculate Longitude, John Harrison would have something to say on that one!
There were many more small errors which sadly could misinform someone with little to no knowledge of the subject and eventually run the risk of being distorted into fact if left unchecked, but language is a fluid thing and it's just the way of the world and as Churchill once said about Britain and America, 'Two nations divided by a common language' never moreso when talking boat.
Take one term we all should know by now as it's in common parlace the world over, the relatively recent one of 'Helming'. I cringe every time I hear it being used, you would never say you were 'Wheeling' your car would you? You'd say you're steering your car with the wheel,  well that's exactly what you are saying when you use the word Helming, a vessel is steered by or with it's helm.
 
I'm not being pedantic but if left to run it's course the language of the sea will get lost in the mists of time. Like Masefield's poem Sea Fever, he actually sailed before the mast so his terminology is spot on, do we all know what he meant with 'when the long trick is over'?
 
The compass cover is called a binnacle and does indeed have a light inside it and a window in it to look through at the course, (not the bearing, a bearing is when you look at an object away from the ship and take a bearing of it and a binacle would stop you doing that), candles, oil lamps and electric all have been and still are in use.
 
If anyone really wanted to nit-pick, I mean REALLY split hairs, in the days of sail all vessels were known by their rigs so the term 'Ship' would only be used to describe a vessel with square sails on all masts therefore a Brig, Barque, Cutter, Schooner etc etc would never be referred to as ships because they weren't ship rigged.
 
I'll shut up now!
 
R.  

— On Fri, 10/5/13, Lee Bonnifield <lee78@localnet.com> wrote:

From: Lee Bonnifield <lee78@localnet.com>
Subject: Re: [shiponedingroup] Re: The Running Tide 10 minute filler after 1977 PBS broadcast of OL
To: shiponedingroup@yahoogroups.com
Date: Friday, 10 May, 2013, 17:49

 

Running Tide was produced in New Orleans. Some of the later titles are
more obviously US-based, like the "women" episode is largely about
female steamboat captains on the Mississippi. I guess it was only
broadcast in the US, PBS needed to fill up the hour when they broadcast
series 1 & 2 of OL. Years later when Arts & Entertainment cable showed
series 5+ they inserted commercial breaks so they didn't need filler.

What's inaccurate?

And what's that cover they remove to look at the compass? I'm guessing
there's an oil lamp and lens in there so the helmsman can see the
bearing at night?

Lee

On 5/10/2013 12:07 PM, R wrote:
> Judging by the inaccuracies, bias and different cultural/technical
> terminology I'd hazzard a guess only in the USA?
>
> Richard.
>
> — On Fri, 10/5/13, Chris J Brady <chrisjbrady@yahoo.com
> <mailto:chrisjbrady%40yahoo.com>> wrote:
>
> From: Chris J Brady <chrisjbrady@yahoo.com <mailto:chrisjbrady%40yahoo.com>>
> Subject: Re: [shiponedingroup] Re: The Running Tide 10 minute filler
> after 1977 PBS broadcast of OL
> To: shiponedingroup@yahoogroups.com
> <mailto:shiponedingroup%40yahoogroups.com>
> Date: Friday, 10 May, 2013, 16:39
>
>
>
> Brilliant. Thank you. Were these broadcast in the UK or only in the US
> or maybe Australia? Chris B.
>
> — On Fri, 10/5/13, Lee Bonnifield <lee78@localnet.com
> <mailto:lee78%40localnet.com>> wrote:
>
>> From: Lee Bonnifield <lee78@localnet.com <mailto:lee78%40localnet.com>>
>> Subject: Re: [shiponedingroup] Re: The Running Tide 10 minute filler after 1977 PBS broadcast of OL
>> To:shiponedingroup@yahoogroups.com <mailto:shiponedingroup%40yahoogroups.com>
>> Date: Friday, 10 May, 2013, 0:05
>> whoops I meant #5 crimping
>> On 5/9/2013 7:04 PM, Lee Bonnifield wrote:
>> > Thanks Elaine! There are 2 more up now, #3 superstition
>> & #4 crimping.
>> >
>> > I've put 5 of The Running Tides up on my public
>> skydrive, more to follow.
>> >
>> >http://sdrv.ms/12cgzcR
>> >
>> > These are about 10 minutes each, 640×480 .wmv files
>> 40-55 megabytes
>> >
>> > Lee
>> >
>> > On 5/8/2013 8:15 AM, Elaine de Saxe wrote:
>> >> On Wed, 08 May 2013 04:17:20 -0000, leebonnifield
>> wrote:
>> >>
>> >>> I've put 3 of The Running Tides up on my public
>> skydrive, more to follow.
>> >> Seriously excellent! The sound is quite clear and
>> it's the commentary
>> >> which has the information.
>> >>
>> >> Thank you for what you have done so far. I'm keen
>> to see the rest of
>> >> them when you are able to get them up, Lee.
>> >>
>> >> Cheers
>> >>
>> >> Elaine in Brisbane, Australia

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[coolowl2001]

On Fri, 10 May 2013 08:39:51 -0700 (PDT), Chris J Brady wrote:

> maybe Australia?

Not Australia 🙁

Elaine

[leebonnifield]

Thanks for the corrections.

On 5/10/2013 2:04 PM, R wrote:
> I didn't keep notes when watching but off the top of my head, describing
> fore and aft rigged boats with only one mast as sloops but showing a
> picture of a cutter.

So, I guess the single fore and aft mast is too far astern in the first
picture TRT calls a "sloop"; the second picture called a sloop actually
is one?

> Implying an American discovered how to calculate Longitude, John
> Harrison would have something to say on that one!

TRT didn't say American Thomas Sumner discovered how to calculate
longitude, that was already being calculated with clocks & tables. TRT
didn't mention Harrison who invented (1759) a clock accurate enough. TRT
said Sumner discovered (1837) how to calculate longitude with the same
(?!) observation as using the sextant to measure latitude. I'm guessing
he still needed Harrison's clock, just not such complicated tables.

> There were many more small errors which sadly could misinform someone
> with little to no knowledge of the subject and eventually run the risk
> of being distorted into fact if left unchecked,

I encourage nit picking, I've always assumed OL is historically
precise*! I imagine TRT was created earlier, independently, but due to
my formative experiences seeing them together, I want TRT accurate too.
(*I think Garibaldi's route to Italy was a little different.)

> Take one term we all should know by now as it's in common parlace the
> world over, the relatively recent one of 'Helming'. I cringe every time

I think TRT did not say that? OED does have a listing for "helm" as a
verb, usages from 1603-1890.

> do we all know what he meant with 'when the long trick is over'?

Huh! I thought I knew, but I was thinking Masefield wrote "trek" until
you pointed it out, TRT does say "trick".

> If anyone really wanted to nit-pick, I mean REALLY split hairs, in the
> days of sail all vessels were known by their rigs so the term 'Ship'
> would only be used to describe a vessel with square sails on all masts
> therefore a Brig, Barque, Cutter, Schooner etc etc would never be
> referred to as ships because they weren't ship rigged.

I'm the one who made up the title "sails & ships", I guess "sails &
vessels" or "rigging" would be better. I think TRT was pretty careful
about not calling a schooner etc a "ship". But a brig has square sails
on all (2) masts, right? Sometimes TRT & dictionaries imply a "ship"
has 3 or more masts.

James S1N1 09:06 referring to the schooner Charlotte Rhodes: "Old Josh
Webster's ship…"

> I'll shut up now!

Please pipe up again when you see more errors!

Lee

[ivaradi]

If you really want me to I shall watch them all again and take notes?
 
The difference between a sloop and a cutter is not due to the position of the mast but simply the number of sails set forward of the mast, sloops have only the one, cutters two or more.
 
I did say 'implied' discovering Longitude, some mention of Harrison whould have removed that implication.
 
I used Helm as an example, not because it was mentioned, which it wasn't. Helm is a noun, it's a physical part of a ship (generic) not an action and still is in 2013!
 
I sincerely hope I'm not bursting any bubbles but as I've already said TOL is primarily romantic fiction, yes it has a damned good go at being historically accurate but even it can be nit-picked on the historic front. Next time you watch it look for Talurit, or swaged wire splicing in the rigging, or my Clarkes 'Pasty' shoes in one episode before Ken the wardrobe man caught me not going barefoot! (imagine an angry John Inman from Are You Being Served!) Precise it is not but mostly due to bloopers.

Masefield's long trick is a reference to steering (with the helm!). Contrary to common belief steering is often more disliked than any other duty onboard primarily because it can be incredibly boring, alone, constantly watching a compass or physically exhausting fighting a kicking wheel and the hour 'trick' one does at the wheel can feel an eternity, woebetide any man late to take his turn at the wheel especially on a cold wet night!
 
No, don't worry about the use of the word ship, it has, in the fluidity of our differing languages, became a generic term and perfectly acceptible. However, a ship rigged vessel MUST have three square masts or more hence a brig being a brig.
 
Richard. 
 
 

— On Sat, 11/5/13, Lee Bonnifield <lee78@localnet.com> wrote:

From: Lee Bonnifield <lee78@localnet.com>
Subject: Re: [shiponedingroup] Re: The Running Tide 10 minute filler after 1977 PBS broadcast of OL
To: shiponedingroup@yahoogroups.com
Date: Saturday, 11 May, 2013, 3:55

 

Thanks for the corrections.

On 5/10/2013 2:04 PM, R wrote:
> I didn't keep notes when watching but off the top of my head, describing
> fore and aft rigged boats with only one mast as sloops but showing a
> picture of a cutter.

So, I guess the single fore and aft mast is too far astern in the first
picture TRT calls a "sloop"; the second picture called a sloop actually
is one?

> Implying an American discovered how to calculate Longitude, John
> Harrison would have something to say on that one!

TRT didn't say American Thomas Sumner discovered how to calculate
longitude, that was already being calculated with clocks & tables. TRT
didn't mention Harrison who invented (1759) a clock accurate enough. TRT
said Sumner discovered (1837) how to calculate longitude with the same
(?!) observation as using the sextant to measure latitude. I'm guessing
he still needed Harrison's clock, just not such complicated tables.

> There were many more small errors which sadly could misinform someone
> with little to no knowledge of the subject and eventually run the risk
> of being distorted into fact if left unchecked,

I encourage nit picking, I've always assumed OL is historically
precise*! I imagine TRT was created earlier, independently, but due to
my formative experiences seeing them together, I want TRT accurate too.
(*I think Garibaldi's route to Italy was a little different.)

> Take one term we all should know by now as it's in common parlace the
> world over, the relatively recent one of 'Helming'. I cringe every time

I think TRT did not say that? OED does have a listing for "helm" as a
verb, usages from 1603-1890.

> do we all know what he meant with 'when the long trick is over'?

Huh! I thought I knew, but I was thinking Masefield wrote "trek" until
you pointed it out, TRT does say "trick".

> If anyone really wanted to nit-pick, I mean REALLY split hairs, in the
> days of sail all vessels were known by their rigs so the term 'Ship'
> would only be used to describe a vessel with square sails on all masts
> therefore a Brig, Barque, Cutter, Schooner etc etc would never be
> referred to as ships because they weren't ship rigged.

I'm the one who made up the title "sails & ships", I guess "sails &
vessels" or "rigging" would be better. I think TRT was pretty careful
about not calling a schooner etc a "ship". But a brig has square sails
on all (2) masts, right? Sometimes TRT & dictionaries imply a "ship"
has 3 or more masts.

James S1N1 09:06 referring to the schooner Charlotte Rhodes: "Old Josh
Webster's ship…"

> I'll shut up now!

Please pipe up again when you see more errors!

Lee

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[chrisjbrady]

Remember that The Onedin Line was written and filmed in England and used genuine tall ships along with their crews. The ships are still around as are most of the crew members. The BBC at the time produced (and maybe still does) historically accurate and high budget drama programmes including similar series such as Poldark.
The Running Tide filmlets were produced by a t.v. company to 'waste' time. They appear to be badly researched, low-budget, and are US-centric (unsurprisingly). Sadly the History / Discovery Channel(s) a few years ago also produced a series of programmes on sailing ships that were equally as badly researched. I would opine that t.v. companies haven't got a clue about things maritime.
CJB.

— On Sat, 11/5/13, R <advcour@btinternet.com> wrote:

From: R <advcour@btinternet.com>
Subject: Re: [shiponedingroup] Re: The Running Tide 10 minute filler after 1977 PBS broadcast of OL
To: shiponedingroup@yahoogroups.com
Date: Saturday, 11 May, 2013, 9:34

 

If you really want me to I shall watch them all again and take notes?

 

The difference between a sloop and a cutter is not due to the position of the mast but simply the number of sails set forward of the mast, sloops have only the one, cutters two or more.

 

I did say 'implied' discovering Longitude, some mention of Harrison whould have removed that implication.

 

I used Helm as an example, not because it was mentioned, which it wasn't. Helm is a noun, it's a physical part of a ship (generic) not an action and still is in 2013!

 

I sincerely hope I'm not bursting any bubbles but as I've already said TOL is primarily romantic fiction, yes it has a damned good go at being historically accurate but even it can be nit-picked on the historic front. Next time you watch it look for Talurit, or swaged wire splicing in the rigging, or my Clarkes 'Pasty' shoes in one episode before Ken the wardrobe man caught me not going barefoot! (imagine an angry John Inman from Are You Being Served!) Precise it is not but mostly due to bloopers.

Masefield's long trick is a reference to steering (with the helm!). Contrary to common belief steering is often more disliked than any other duty onboard primarily because it can be incredibly boring, alone, constantly watching a compass or physically exhausting fighting a kicking wheel and the hour 'trick' one does at the wheel can feel an eternity, woebetide any man late to take his turn at the wheel especially on a cold wet night!

 

No, don't worry about the use of the word ship, it has, in the fluidity of our differing languages, became a generic term and perfectly acceptible. However, a ship rigged vessel MUST have three square masts or more hence a brig being a brig.

 

Richard. 

 

 

— On Sat, 11/5/13, Lee Bonnifield <lee78@localnet.com> wrote:

From: Lee Bonnifield <lee78@localnet.com>

Subject: Re: [shiponedingroup] Re: The Running Tide 10 minute filler after 1977 PBS broadcast of OL

To: shiponedingroup@yahoogroups.com

Date: Saturday, 11 May, 2013, 3:55

 

Thanks for the corrections.

On 5/10/2013 2:04 PM, R wrote:

> I didn't keep notes when watching but off the top of my head, describing

> fore and aft rigged boats with only one mast as sloops but showing a

> picture of a cutter.

So, I guess the single fore and aft mast is too far astern in the first

picture TRT calls a "sloop"; the second picture called a sloop actually

is one?

> Implying an American discovered how to calculate Longitude, John

> Harrison would have something to say on that one!

TRT didn't say American Thomas Sumner discovered how to calculate

longitude, that was already being calculated with clocks & tables. TRT

didn't mention Harrison who invented (1759) a clock accurate enough. TRT

said Sumner discovered (1837) how to calculate longitude with the same

(?!) observation as using the sextant to measure latitude. I'm guessing

he still needed Harrison's clock, just not such complicated tables.

> There were many more small errors which sadly could misinform someone

> with little to no knowledge of the subject and eventually run the risk

> of being distorted into fact if left unchecked,

I encourage nit picking, I've always assumed OL is historically

precise*! I imagine TRT was created earlier, independently, but due to

my formative experiences seeing them together, I want TRT accurate too.

(*I think Garibaldi's route to Italy was a little different.)

> Take one term we all should know by now as it's in common parlace the

> world over, the relatively recent one of 'Helming'. I cringe every time

I think TRT did not say that? OED does have a listing for "helm" as a

verb, usages from 1603-1890.

> do we all know what he meant with 'when the long trick is over'?

Huh! I thought I knew, but I was thinking Masefield wrote "trek" until

you pointed it out, TRT does say "trick".

> If anyone really wanted to nit-pick, I mean REALLY split hairs, in the

> days of sail all vessels were known by their rigs so the term 'Ship'

> would only be used to describe a vessel with square sails on all masts

> therefore a Brig, Barque, Cutter, Schooner etc etc would never be

> referred to as ships because they weren't ship rigged.

I'm the one who made up the title "sails & ships", I guess "sails &

vessels" or "rigging" would be better. I think TRT was pretty careful

about not calling a schooner etc a "ship". But a brig has square sails

on all (2) masts, right? Sometimes TRT & dictionaries imply a "ship"

has 3 or more masts.

James S1N1 09:06 referring to the schooner Charlotte Rhodes: "Old Josh

Webster's ship…"

> I'll shut up now!

Please pipe up again when you see more errors!

Lee

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Author]

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