Captain Baines – Did the Scripwriter give him a Raw Deal?

[stuart_fanning]

Does anyone else think it strange that, in the main, the
Baines/James Onedin relationship didn't develop all that much. If
you look at their relationship during the first couple of seasons
and the last two seasons, it hadn't changed that much. Surely over
the 20 or 30 years they were together Baines would have grown in
self confidence so that there relationship would have become more of
one of equals. Obviously it couldn't completely as Baines was a
senior employee, but Onedin's growing reliance on Baines over the
years should have pushed things in that direction. I think Onedin
would have accepted a more equal relationship, but the series
scriptwriters really didn't develop the Baines character very much.
Onedin obviously cared for Baines as the long search in icy Labrador
proved and the naming of Onedin's son William at the endof the
series.

[ivaradi]

— I dont quite know waht you mean? They were not socially eqauls
and James actually didn't seem incliend to wnat a more equitable
relationsip – though Im not sure what form that would take? – in fact
at every attempt by Baines to set up on his own, James took offence
and quarreeled with him.

G

>
> Does anyone else think it strange that, in the main, the
> Baines/James Onedin relationship didn't develop all that much. If
> you look at their relationship during the first couple of seasons
> and the last two seasons, it hadn't changed that much. Surely over
> the 20 or 30 years they were together Baines would have grown in
> self confidence so that there relationship would have become more

of

> one of equals. Obviously it couldn't completely as Baines was a
> senior employee, but Onedin's growing reliance on Baines over the
> years should have pushed things in that direction. I think Onedin
> would have accepted a more equal relationship, but the series
> scriptwriters really didn't develop the Baines character very much.
> Onedin obviously cared for Baines as the long search in icy

Labrador

> proved and the naming of Onedin's son William at the endof the
> series.

[ivaradi]

Hi Stuart,
Not really (though possibly puzzling). JO was
basically an aristocrat from the beginning (?) and
married Anne to gain the shipping line. WB was just a
common sailor who worked his way up. Though it does
seem confusing at times why JO would not consider WB
his equal (when it was Capt. WB) it is sort of the
caste system of the victorian era.
Searching for WB in Labrador would have been the
code of the sea (going to another's distress) and
would
not necessarily mean they were buddy-buddy.
I have not seen all the eps but what happen to Anne
Onedin? Did she die or get a divorce from James?
Ron
— stuart_fanning <stuart.fanning@ntlworld.com>
wrote:

>
> Does anyone else think it strange that, in the main,
> the
> Baines/James Onedin relationship didn't develop all
> that much. If
> you look at their relationship during the first
> couple of seasons
> and the last two seasons, it hadn't changed that
> much. Surely over
> the 20 or 30 years they were together Baines would
> have grown in
> self confidence so that there relationship would
> have become more of
> one of equals. Obviously it couldn't completely as
> Baines was a
> senior employee, but Onedin's growing reliance on
> Baines over the
> years should have pushed things in that direction. I
> think Onedin
> would have accepted a more equal relationship, but
> the series
> scriptwriters really didn't develop the Baines
> character very much.
> Onedin obviously cared for Baines as the long search
> in icy Labrador
> proved and the naming of Onedin's son William at the
> endof the
> series.
>
>
>
>

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[stuart_fanning]

— In shiponedingroup@yahoogroups.com, Ronald Pritchard
<australian4you@y…> wrote:

> Hi Stuart,
> Not really (though possibly puzzling). JO was
> basically an aristocrat from the beginning (?) and
> married Anne to gain the shipping line. WB was just a
> common sailor who worked his way up. Though it does
> seem confusing at times why JO would not consider WB
> his equal (when it was Capt. WB) it is sort of the
> caste system of the victorian era.
> Searching for WB in Labrador would have been the
> code of the sea (going to another's distress) and
> would
> not necessarily mean they were buddy-buddy.
> I have not seen all the eps but what happen to Anne
> Onedin? Did she die or get a divorce from James?
> Ron
> — stuart_fanning <stuart.fanning@n…>
> wrote:
>
> >
> > Does anyone else think it strange that, in the main,
> > the
> > Baines/James Onedin relationship didn't develop all
> > that much. If
> > you look at their relationship during the first
> > couple of seasons
> > and the last two seasons, it hadn't changed that
> > much. Surely over
> > the 20 or 30 years they were together Baines would
> > have grown in
> > self confidence so that there relationship would
> > have become more of
> > one of equals. Obviously it couldn't completely as
> > Baines was a
> > senior employee, but Onedin's growing reliance on
> > Baines over the
> > years should have pushed things in that direction. I
> > think Onedin
> > would have accepted a more equal relationship, but
> > the series
> > scriptwriters really didn't develop the Baines
> > character very much.
> > Onedin obviously cared for Baines as the long search
> > in icy Labrador
> > proved and the naming of Onedin's son William at the
> > endof the
> > series.

———————————————————————

Anne died in Childbirth having
Charlotte.****************************

> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
> __________________________________
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[duncanharvey2001]

Its also the case that Onedin named the South American port – Port
Baines – I think there was more of a bond than previous posters have
suggested.

It must be remembered that JO was a man who was totally driven by self
interest, and had little time for emotional bonds – his sudden
conversion to propose to Leonora is particularly jarring.

He's an interesting character for a popular drama – an anti-hero who
you totally root for, and he's not really "held back" by being
surrounded by villainous rivals/enemies. The nearest you really get
is Callan in season one. Certainly Fogerty mark I is a rival, but
aside from compromising Elizabeth, he's not really an enemy.

— In shiponedingroup@yahoogroups.com, "stuart_fanning"
<stuart.fanning@n…> wrote:

>
> — In shiponedingroup@yahoogroups.com, Ronald Pritchard
> <australian4you@y…> wrote:
> > Hi Stuart,
> > Not really (though possibly puzzling). JO was
> > basically an aristocrat from the beginning (?) and
> > married Anne to gain the shipping line. WB was just a
> > common sailor who worked his way up. Though it does
> > seem confusing at times why JO would not consider WB
> > his equal (when it was Capt. WB) it is sort of the
> > caste system of the victorian era.
> > Searching for WB in Labrador would have been the
> > code of the sea (going to another's distress) and
> > would
> > not necessarily mean they were buddy-buddy.
> > I have not seen all the eps but what happen to Anne
> > Onedin? Did she die or get a divorce from James?
> > Ron
> > — stuart_fanning <stuart.fanning@n…>
> > wrote:
> >
> > >
> > > Does anyone else think it strange that, in the main,
> > > the
> > > Baines/James Onedin relationship didn't develop all
> > > that much. If
> > > you look at their relationship during the first
> > > couple of seasons
> > > and the last two seasons, it hadn't changed that
> > > much. Surely over
> > > the 20 or 30 years they were together Baines would
> > > have grown in
> > > self confidence so that there relationship would
> > > have become more of
> > > one of equals. Obviously it couldn't completely as
> > > Baines was a
> > > senior employee, but Onedin's growing reliance on
> > > Baines over the
> > > years should have pushed things in that direction. I
> > > think Onedin
> > > would have accepted a more equal relationship, but
> > > the series
> > > scriptwriters really didn't develop the Baines
> > > character very much.
> > > Onedin obviously cared for Baines as the long search
> > > in icy Labrador
> > > proved and the naming of Onedin's son William at the
> > > endof the
> > > series.
>
> ———————————————————————
>
> Anne died in Childbirth having
> Charlotte.****************************
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > __________________________________
> > Do you Yahoo!?
> > Yahoo! Mail – Helps protect you from nasty viruses.
> > http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail

[ivaradi]

—JO was NOT an aristrocrat.. he was lower midlde class – his family
kept a small shop, they were nto poor but they wree far from rihc nad
certianly not aristocratic.

but as Baines employer, JO was socially superor to him although he
was clealry fond of him and they ahd a freindship – it was not really
a freindship of equals

G

. JO was

> basically an aristocrat from the beginning (?) and
> married Anne to gain the shipping line. WB was just a
> common sailor who worked his way up. Though it does
> seem confusing at times why JO would not consider WB
> his equal (when it was Capt. WB) it is sort of the
> caste system of the victorian era.
> Searching for WB in Labrador would have been the
> code of the sea (going to another's distress) and
> would
> not necessarily mean they were buddy-buddy.
> I have not seen all the eps but what happen to Anne
> Onedin? Did she die or get a divorce from James?
> Ron
> — stuart_fanning <stuart.fanning@n…>
> wrote:
>
> >
> > Does anyone else think it strange that, in the main,
> > the
> > Baines/James Onedin relationship didn't develop all
> > that much. If
> > you look at their relationship during the first
> > couple of seasons
> > and the last two seasons, it hadn't changed that
> > much. Surely over
> > the 20 or 30 years they were together Baines would
> > have grown in
> > self confidence so that there relationship would
> > have become more of
> > one of equals. Obviously it couldn't completely as
> > Baines was a
> > senior employee, but Onedin's growing reliance on
> > Baines over the
> > years should have pushed things in that direction. I
> > think Onedin
> > would have accepted a more equal relationship, but
> > the series
> > scriptwriters really didn't develop the Baines
> > character very much.
> > Onedin obviously cared for Baines as the long search
> > in icy Labrador
> > proved and the naming of Onedin's son William at the
> > endof the
> > series.
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
> __________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Mail – Helps protect you from nasty viruses.
> http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail

[ivaradi]

— yes I agree… there was a bond, but James is a hard man – not
completley ruthless but deeply selfish – who has grown up in a hard
world and has litlte time for feelings.

I agree too about the proposal to Leonora – but the whole series 3
was weak becuase it tried to make James inot a womaniser whch he
wasnt'. He was too busy making money to be interested in women – and
i beleive that Peter Gilmore refused ot do any more shows unless they
made James more like his old self…

I can just about think he chose Leonora because Caroline had turned
him down repeatedly and he wanted to remarry and have soemone to keep
house anad look after his child, plus probably he woudl have liekd to
have a son by her – and she was rich and pretty. I think that he idd
like her a bit – but the proposal was mostly out of selfish rasons.

G

> Its also the case that Onedin named the South American port – Port
> Baines – I think there was more of a bond than previous posters have
> suggested.
>
> It must be remembered that JO was a man who was totally driven by

self

> interest, and had little time for emotional bonds – his sudden
> conversion to propose to Leonora is particularly jarring.
>
> He's an interesting character for a popular drama – an anti-hero who
> you totally root for, and he's not really "held back" by being
> surrounded by villainous rivals/enemies. The nearest you really get
> is Callan in season one. Certainly Fogerty mark I is a rival, but
> aside from compromising Elizabeth, he's not really an enemy.
>
> — In shiponedingroup@yahoogroups.com, "stuart_fanning"
> <.com/new_mail

[ivaradi]

Hi G,
I do not doubt your info since you may have seen the
show from the beginning (I did not as I only caught
some eps on PBS in the States). However I find it a
bit unnerving that (wasn't his first wife into
shipping? Her sister (?) was wasn't she) so I wonder
how JO could have married her in the first place. She
may have been out of his class in the Victorian age.
Ron
— gduch2001 <gduch2001@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:

>
> —JO was NOT an aristrocrat.. he was lower midlde
> class – his family
> kept a small shop, they were nto poor but they wree
> far from rihc nad
> certianly not aristocratic.
>
> but as Baines employer, JO was socially superor to
> him although he
> was clealry fond of him and they ahd a freindship –
> it was not really
> a freindship of equals
>
> G
>
> . JO was
> > basically an aristocrat from the beginning (?) and
> > married Anne to gain the shipping line. WB was
> just a
> > common sailor who worked his way up. Though it
> does
> > seem confusing at times why JO would not consider
> WB
> > his equal (when it was Capt. WB) it is sort of the
> > caste system of the victorian era.
> > Searching for WB in Labrador would have been the
> > code of the sea (going to another's distress) and
> > would
> > not necessarily mean they were buddy-buddy.
> > I have not seen all the eps but what happen to
> Anne
> > Onedin? Did she die or get a divorce from James?
> > Ron
> > — stuart_fanning <stuart.fanning@n…>
> > wrote:
> >
> > >
> > > Does anyone else think it strange that, in the
> main,
> > > the
> > > Baines/James Onedin relationship didn't develop
> all
> > > that much. If
> > > you look at their relationship during the first
> > > couple of seasons
> > > and the last two seasons, it hadn't changed that
> > > much. Surely over
> > > the 20 or 30 years they were together Baines
> would
> > > have grown in
> > > self confidence so that there relationship would
> > > have become more of
> > > one of equals. Obviously it couldn't completely
> as
> > > Baines was a
> > > senior employee, but Onedin's growing reliance
> on
> > > Baines over the
> > > years should have pushed things in that
> direction. I
> > > think Onedin
> > > would have accepted a more equal relationship,
> but
> > > the series
> > > scriptwriters really didn't develop the Baines
> > > character very much.
> > > Onedin obviously cared for Baines as the long
> search
> > > in icy Labrador
> > > proved and the naming of Onedin's son William at
> the
> > > endof the
> > > series.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > __________________________________
> > Do you Yahoo!?
> > Yahoo! Mail – Helps protect you from nasty
> viruses.
> > http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail
>
>
>
>

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[ivaradi]

hi Ron, what do you find unnerving? Im a big big fan of the show, I
ahave seen all the eps whn I was a child, or v nearly and I've got
some of them on video, so I can bore you wiht information…

Im wondering are you misunderstanding the term aristocrat which in
England is applied to a v small minority who are rich, well bred anad
mostly who were landowners. Thye were thte ruling class in the 19th
C , but gradually people from the midldle classes who began to make
large fortunes in trade or industry began to take part in politics,
to buy up landed estates and generally to become part fo the ruling
elite as well.

JO is typical of THIS rising class.. he starts off as a shopkeeper's
son, not poor but far from rich. His family own a small business.
Anne, his first wife, is not higher than him socially – or perhaps
just a tiny bit. Her fathter was in the Navy, which is a tiny cut
above trade, and he managed ot buy a ship to make some money in his
old age. However, he is not much a businessman and he is alos a
drunk which is why he ends up deciding to sell the ship for ready
money. and Anne then suggests to James that if he were to marry her
and take care of her, he could have hte ship for free.

not sure what you mean by Her sister?

G

> I do not doubt your info since you may have seen the
> show from the beginning (I did not as I only caught
> some eps on PBS in the States). However I find it a
> bit unnerving that (wasn't his first wife into
> shipping? Her sister (?) was wasn't she) so I wonder
> how JO could have married her in the first place. She
> may have been out of his class in the Victorian age.
> Ron
> — gduch2001 <gduch2001@y…> wrote:
> >
> > yahoo.com

[Author]

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